I'm not sure how people feel about this topic from an LGBT perspective as I feel rather torn on it myself. Its been the subject of some conversation amongst some friends and myself from a non-initiated perspective. My own understanding is that the Great Rite is the quintessential "Wiccan" ceremony which in a coven requires aspecting of the God and Goddess in Creation. The hints given online are that sexual magic can be employed during or post the Great Rite itself but that the Great Rite is something separate and that only the High Priestess and High Priest can do as man and woman.

Has anyone been involved in an all male or all female ritual where the Great Rite was part of it? Was it as successful as with a man-woman partnership? I know that for many groups its becoming more popular to hold a symbolic act of the Great Rite by having the H.Priest dip the Athame (masucline) into the Chalice (feminine) held by the H.Priestess but an intricate part of the ceremony is being omitted and while it may not compromise the working I'm sure it does affect the energies raised?

There are a few rites for same-sex working. I mean Crowley was of the opinion that while in ritual same-sex rituals were perfectly fine (pffft... excuses ) so most people are familiar with the Rites of Pan, I believe that Alex Sanders even attempted a few rituals with male members of his coven.

Many initiated Wiccans (Gardnerian, Alexandrian and Algard, et al.) would agree that same-sex couples could perform sexual magic together with great success but for some reason the line is drawn at embodying the Lord and Lady during the Great Rite. Many initiatory Wiccans may have developed from the early days of homophobia in the traditions but from what I can gleam there is a clear bias towards physicalness in the Great Rite specifically.

I understand and even promote the need for balance between polarities (I'm developing my studies of Hermetism and Qabalah all the time) but I always understood this to mean within the mircrocosmic person. In Qabalah there is the concept of Adam Kadmon, who is both genders. This seems to be the aim of working the Tree of Life which has remained a constant in Wiccan teachings within a coven setting. And surely if the HPS and HP are aspecting or channelling the Goddess and the God then with the appropriate training regardless of gender so could and should anyone in Wicca?

(Sorry know I'm ranting almost there... lol) But also what of those that identify as transgender or intersexed? There seems to be a lot of highbrow politics at work on establishing principles for the modern Craft but I find its not so much the homophobia that inhibits but the prejudices of "adepts" who aren't comfortable exploring outside of what they have been trained in?

I'm no Wiccan, of any tradition, but based on my understanding the Great Rite can be viewed in one or both of two ways: as ecstatic union & synthesis of polar/complementary opposites, and as generation of new life. I think the phobic groups are slanted toward the latter view, and those who take the Charge of the Goddess to heart are slanted toward the former.

Even the view of polarity/complementarity can be limiting, of course. It's eminently possible for two "tops" or "bottoms" to get it on. I think somebody did a talk on that at PantheaCon a while back (I didn't see it), about...resonance? Anyhow it was about sharing similar energies instead of polar/complementary.

Adding to this discussion the fact that among many native american tribes LGBT individuals where often called "the people of two souls/spirits". This directly referanced the fact that individuals such as ourselves have a mxture of both male and female in varying degrees. as such on a few occasions I have technically preformed the great rite as a solitary practitioner, calling up both my masculine and feminine aspects.
The result was quite interesting and personal, and I would figure different for everyone, but prior to preforming the rite in this manner there was still great tendancy to confusion in my life reguarding how I defined myself. After preforming it as a solitary my own personal tendancies finally solidified, and I found for certain where my balance was.
Turned out I'm mostly masculine, plaid and wool work socks kind of masculine. But I must say, The goddess is all the woman I'll ever need... LOL

There's still plenty of homophobia in the Pagan community, but it's that subtle, unspoken homophobia. The kind that's more de facto than de jure in the mind of the bigoted Pagan. Trust me, there's plenty here in the Rust Belt! Until the kids of today grow up, I think we won't be seeing too many Great Rite Rituals with same sex HP/HPS roles. Hope for the future!
Of course we all have male and female in our deepest being. Remember how late I came out of the closet? Well, it's only since then that I let any of the female aspect express myself. I'm very comfortable with my male-ness and I too am very much a plaids and jeans dood. But now I recognize and embrace the feminine parts of my soul that allow me to be more whole as a person. Now...if I could just get my Left-brain to come out more, I'd be one happy clam at high tide!

There are a number of ways I've seen this approached:

1. Not all men have masculine energy. So a feminine man and masculine man could do this.

2. You can do it with a woman but have astral sex on a psychic level.

3. (my personal favorite), moving beyond a gender binary to accept that god energy is always more complex and messy than we can conceive and just having some hot, rough and effective sex magic kick in.

I vote for 3

I was trained, initiated and elevated through the degrees in a traditional Wiccan coven. Regadless of the fact that my High Priestess was a lesbian, and that I am a gay man (introduced to that coven by my first boyfriend in fact), that tradition initiated strictly woman-to-man, man-to-woman. That is how I was trained, and how I trained and initiated into my own coven when I formed one, and how those covens founded by my students operate still.  

We have had a very high percentage of LGBT members, without feeling like this tradition is misplaced or outdated.  It's not just about the sex - it's about that there ARE two sexes, and life needs both, like we need summer and winter, night and day, etc.  I didn't have sex with any of my priestesses (well, okay - with one, once, but that was Beltane and I wasn't myself ), but I did have intense, creative, inspiring relationships with all of them.

Without saying more than I am allowed to, I will say that the Great Rite is a ritual - a symbolic act. It need not be a sexual act to be valid, so long as it aptly demonstrates the creative, synergistic interaction of opposites. The cup & athame blessing is well-enough attested that I don't feel like I am violating any oaths if I mention it in this context. My own 3rd Degree actually involved a holy spring, and not the Great Rite as generally understood. It was nonetheless an effective, and deeply moving, ritual.

Sexual magic, or sacramental sex, need not be thought of in terms of the Great Rite per se. I can see a clear role for male/male sacramental sex in the context of an initiatory tradition. There are clues from all over Bronze Age Europe that male mystery societies, organized first around hunting and later around warfare and under the auspices of animal totems, used sexual rites to confer "manliness" on their members. Vestiges of these survive to this day (minus the ritual sex) in the guise of various Scouting societies.

But that's leading us away from our topic, and probably a matter for another thread.

Hey Caliban, thanks for posting and sharing with us.

I understand that many folks who might like to respond are oath-bound from doing so, so I had hoped to discuss the concept as perceived in the public domain. While awaiting for responses here and on a few other forums I posted on my blog (http://Fear-Draiochta.blogspot.com/2010/07/note-to-traditionalists-principle-of.html) on the issue. I had hoped to stay within the context of printed media and resources but the blog post soon revealed my own biases when I lost sight of the intended context of the word "traditionalists" and focused on Traddies and took a few comments said to me out of context. Not one of my finer moments but certainly a learning moment for me as many Taditional Wiccans came forward to assure me that while they couldn't openly speak about their Craft they were working in more progressive lines of thought. Many work with the symbolic Great Rite as in Athame to Chalice and many no longer work solely man-woman in Circle, thus acknowledging the complexities of human nature.

As for myself I tend to work primarily from a solitary perspective so the concept of Polarity/Duality in physical form tend to escape me as its not a focus point of ceremonial magic.

Similar for myself... Solitary and not Wiccan, the concept of the great rite holds interest as a traditional reference. I note it is held in high regard for many, however for myself I've never needed someone else to help balance by state of being. And I do fully acknowledge that the sacred act of the Great Rite does not need to be sexual in any way... Just happens to be a lot of fun when it is and as an Aries this holds some appeal.